Travis Voss is leader of innovative technology at Helm mechanical, where he's overseen implementation of a range of technologies. We discuss the realities of getting technology to work for project teams, manage a full technology stack, and think about data strategy.
Hugh Seaton: [00:00:00] Welcome to Constructed Futures, I'm Hugh Seaton. Today, I'm here with Travis Voss, leader of innovative technology at the Helm group. Travis, welcome to the podcast.
Travis Voss: [00:00:12] Hey, good morning. Thank you for having me.
Hugh Seaton: [00:00:14] So at the helm group, you do a bunch of cool stuff we've talked about and in the past and I'd love to start with something you hear a lot. And that's data strategy. Everybody, you know, you listen to senior folks, you listen, you read McKinsey. They say everyone should have a data strategy. I want to ask you what your view as someone who was responsible for, or at least one of the people responsible for that. How do you guys look at a data strategy and where do you stand?
Travis Voss: [00:00:37] You know, I think it's really important to at least be considering it. We, we just came off the MEP Innovations Conference, the joint conference between the MCAA, SMACNA, NECA; and Sean McGuire did a bunch of interviews about the power of data. And it is something that I think a great deal about.
I'll be completely honest, we don't have any sort of formal strategy other than "I know right now I want to collect data." So I, I kind of try to spend a lot of time working inside of our tech stack, growing our tech stack togrow that, pool or that lake of data as much as we can. I've made comments before about trying to make sure you don't end up with turds in that pool of data.
And I've been talking to some peers and, thankfully that, you know, they've kind of agreed with the mindset that I had. Like let's just collect as much data as we can because you can't go back and collect data that you missed on. So if you, if you continue to grow that pile of data, don't worry about too much about, obviously you want to have some cleanliness, you want to have some standards and we're working on that, but hopefully the promise of machine learning, AI, and some other things kind of help you kind of pick through that going forward after you've collected it.
Like, like I said, you can't go back and, you know, retrieve harvest data from process. Yeah.
Hugh Seaton: [00:01:50] How do you guys think though about when you, when you, so you're, you're building a data lake. I got to tell you, I've never heard that analogy. Do you don't want to have turds in your pool? I think I'm going to carry that one with me always, but How do you think about putting things into this data Lake?
Are you, are there are a couple of ways of looking at how you store data. One of them is in rows and columns and kind of a standard SQL way. And the other one is a little more modern way, which is you tag it and you just throw it in there and you can go back and retag things. And you can add ways of finding data.
Are you guys at a place where you're thinking hard about that or are you just focused right now on piping in and gathering things?
Travis Voss: [00:02:28] We're mostly focusing on piping and gathering things, you know, early on. I think that we had a little bit more of the old school mindset that we don't care what the collection tool is, but it has to get it back into our ERP system, which is more of that traditional core SQL server lines and columns.
We've kind of moved away from that. And as, as I've matured on the job, as the technologies out there have matured, I kind of realized that you know, that single source of truth, that everybody wants to have that, that you know, we'll probably talk about Nathan a couple of times as we go through this because he's he's been a big influence on me, but that this idea of a common data environment you know, because of the way that that data is getting structured now, to your point, that you can just kind of tag it and dump it in something, as long as you can start to build some sort of relationships out of it, you don't need to have it all in that one place, right?
Your, your data lake or your, you know, your what pond or whatever, the analogy you want to use can be more of a series of interconnected finger lakes or, or whatever you want to. I mean, they don't have to be in one physical location. So that's kind of the, as much as we hate siloed data we've we preach against that.
It, it's more about making sure that connectivity's there and you have the relationships built between the date.
Hugh Seaton: [00:03:41] I think now in today's world, isn't even about where it, where it is physically or otherwise. It's about whether, whether it can to your point, can, you know what to do with it, whether you have the ability to process it.
That's really interesting.I'm telling you, I'm hearing this term federated a lot lately and I, what you just said about it, doesn't all have to be in one system, as long as the systems have the ability to, to query and talk to each other. So I think what is emerging and it's not new in technology, but it's, I think it's emerging in construction a little bit is this idea of federating what you've got so that it still works sometimes as a unit, but it doesn't have to be maintained like a unit.
Is that how you guys are looking at it.
Travis Voss: [00:04:20] Yeah, that's exactly how we're kind of looking at it and, you know, I think to your point, that's where you're seeing some of these other tools, the, whatever, the, the Tableaus, the PowerBI's is the Briqs. And we, we're just kind of talking about data reporting there, but it's basically a dome that goes over all your data and federates it together for you, right.
It builds those relationships allows you to, to kind of manage and, and do your reporting off of that. I think that's where are you starting to see that movement is people are kind of realizing that it's not all going to dump back into that one area, and you just run your analysis from there. You have to have some sort of overarching technology on top that pulls it all together and helps you make sense of it.
Hugh Seaton: [00:04:56] It speaks to the fact that that data is just really counterintuitive. We're so used to a physical world where having a thing means, having a thing, instead of just having access to a thing, you know what I mean? And there's, there's a finite amount of things and that you want them all in one place and, you know, so on and so forth.
Whereas, you know, you can borrow data to get value from it and not still own it, or you can have access to it. You know what I mean? Like it's, it's a really different way of thinking about how you do what you do.
Travis Voss: [00:05:27] Yeah. You know, I don't want to get too much into the, the P's and Q's of the law, but you know, if you look at the big social media companies out there, right?
I mean, they have found a way to leverage the data and then the ad agencies and everybody that kind of goes on it. Like you do your point. It, it's not, it's not really your data. Like I said, I don't want to get too, too deep in it. Cause it can be a little bit of a controversial subject, but you know, we could learn from that in the construction industry, you know, it doesn't have to be data specifically about our company.
It could be data about market trends and industry and how, is one region doing versus another? And there are ways to You know, make it anonymous and, and really just kind of report on trends.
Hugh Seaton: [00:06:02] Right. And, and even, even deeper than that, I don't need to know who was, who was doing the job to be able to aggregate that data and say, in general, when, you know, at the end of a job, people slow down. So let's do things to either put more people that, you know what I mean, I'm making up what the conclusion was, but, but I think, you know, going to be moments when people will care about individuals in those moments require that you tell the people you're looking at them, but otherwise who cares who it is, you know what I mean?
Unless you're making a hiring decision, who cares who it is. So anything personal should be irrelevant. And I think most people look at it that way. I think it's tough for folks whose data is being collected to not be a little freaked out by it. But that's, that's okay.
I mean, that's communication that's saying, look, here's what we're doing with it. And you know, we've. Essentially a user license agreement, right? For the, for the workers. How are you guys looking at that? How are you looking at the privacy thing versus the usefulness thing? Is that even something you have to deal with yet? Or is it something you've thought about?
Travis Voss: [00:07:01] Yeah. You know, it, it depends on what it is you're tracking. We've. We've we've gone back and forth a couple of times with some of our workers and, and whatnot. And we don't, we don't currently you know, enforce any sort of, you know, wearables or anything like that. I think that's where a lot of the conversation ends up.
You know, if you put this, whatever it is, the safety harness vest or this, the safety clip or something like that, you're really just tracking how long I'm in the john and not being productive. And those safety use cases are actually a lot easier to make. I think that the worker's union and the like are really kind of buying into that mindset and for good reason, I mean, that's there to help them ultimately the other things that we've done, like along along the lines of productivity tracking and stuff is that's a little bit more nuanced, you know?
And we try to, especially if it's like, you know, let's say we're doing some sort of productivity tracking in the shop and they're like, well, you're just trying to figure out how you can get rid of me. And I think that you have to be honest with them that yes we're, we're trying to see who is the best at whatever task, but it's not to get rid of you, it's so we can. We can stack our people and our tasks together, so that we're most the most efficient. And if we do that right, we're going to get you more work to do. And that, you know, like I said, that's a harder story to tell, because again, most, most field workers or some field workers just kind of think that you're looking way to cut staff.
Hugh Seaton: [00:08:16] I think some of that is because they're kind of brethren in manufacturing have had a rough 20 years. Yeah, and it didn't start, it didn't start with, you know, China and WTO. It started in the ninth, 1910, or whenever it was this guy , you know, I think of what it was jobs in motion or something like that study, but the point is really looking at what people do and seeing how they can how they can work more efficiently.
You know what I mean? And in manufacturing that really did lead to incredible productivity gains. And unfortunately over time, that means you need fewer people. I think in construction it's the other way around is that, we were trying to get the job done with, with fewer people because there are fewer people.
Travis Voss: [00:08:55] Right. And I think that, the mindset is still there. Right. And I think that a lot of it, you know, and I again, I don't, want to dig too deep into this, but you know, they are paid hourly. So I think that there's a little bit of a mindset though that, well, if you make me get my work done faster, I won't have as many hours, but conversely, I think that, like you said, we've kind of turned, you know, manufacturer went the one way where they got super efficient and just didn't need people anymore. I think that it's pretty clear. It's meant, well, it's not clear, it's debatable that there's a labor shortage and I will say that it's harder to get people in construction. But there is that mindset that you're going to get rid of us.
But conversely, like there's so much construction out there to be done that we do need to be more efficient and hopefully we can get the workers to say to understand that, yeah, maybe you're going to get job done with this job faster, but if we get more efficient, we can bid more competitively on the next job.
And you're just going to go from job to job. Cause that's, I mean, that's, we all want that. Right.
Hugh Seaton: [00:09:47] It's a tough, it's a tough mindset, but you know, every change, no matter what, you know, what it is, requires communication over and over again. I mean, I'm sure one of the reasons the MEP Conference had such a focus on data is a recognition that there's just a lot of messaging and a lot of discussion to go on. The old saying is, by the time you're tired of saying it, they're just starting to hear it. I love, I love that one. Yeah.
Travis Voss: [00:10:12] I love that one too.
Hugh Seaton: [00:10:13] So as you guys think about and we're, we're kind of focusing on data. One of the, one of the things that we discussed prior to this is how it's important for you as a, as the Helm group vis-a-vis other companies.
Talk to me a little bit about where that's, where you're seeing that start to become more and more a part of what you do.
Travis Voss: [00:10:33] Yeah. I think that as the whole industry becomes much more data-driven and we have a lot more requirements put on us by the owners, general contractors and other trade partners.
And this is the, the whole reason that CPC, Nathan Wood, you know James Benham, and Benny Baltrotsky, everybody kind of got around this idea that we just need a better way to exchange data than we have right now. And they started with the PDF standards. Now Nathan's onto his common data exchange and in common common data exchanges and kind of data and environments is this mindset that, you know, like I said, we're getting a lot of pressure and requests and from, from the GC, let's say and to track more data, right? They want their information, they want their data, they want the RFI, their submittals. They want whatever time cards, whatever information, daily logs. And it, it. We're happy to provide that, but what we're bogging down in, or we're starting to fall apart in is the fact that you know, say we're doing 25 projects at any given time, 25 large projects where we can be at 25 different systems. Right?
And not only in 25 different systems for, for each project, but then we're also managing our own internal systems as well . And to speak to the labor shortage and, and hard time getting people into construction , nobody wants to, I don't think a lot of people want to sit there and download PDFs from one system format and put them up into another system.
Hugh Seaton: [00:11:51] Well, the, the team, the person you would get to do that is unlikely to know anything about construction. So you can get a clerk or somebody maybe even overseas or whatever. But they're not going to know what they're doing. They're just going to be shuttling things back and forth. I mean, that's the crazy thing, right? Is someone who's willing to do that may not know what they're doing.
Travis Voss: [00:12:10] Yeah. Yeah. And the ones that we have, you know, we do have , some pretty good veteran project assistants who handle most of this stuff. That's not their most valuable task. Right. I mean, yes, it's important to keep the project team up to date and have the data there.
But there's gotta be a better way and, I always say, you know, Anytime you take all that smart data, 3D model, something out of a, out of a database or something, and then you flatten it into a PDF, you've just made it dumb or you ship it into an Excel spreadsheet. Well, you've just made it disconnected and that data is stale as soon as you've done that.
So that's what, one of the things I've been trying to push for and trying to champion a little bit more in the industry is, you know, let's sit down And it's going to take, take some hard work from, from both from the construction side, but a lot of times from the big tech side, because I think that there's still a perception from some of the tech players that we're just going to take over the world and everybody's going to live in our environment.
I don't think that's very realistic. I think that we need to have some conversations with these tech companies and get them to understand that there's not going to be "one ring that rules them all." You know, there's not going to be one system that everybody's going to do. So, you know, let's play nicely.
I can't remember the last numbers. You know, it's a several trillion dollar industry. There's a lot of pie to go around. I understand we're all capitalists. We want the biggest chunk we can get, but there's a way to co-exist and make the industry better and still get your money.
Hugh Seaton: [00:13:28] I think that's a, that's an old strategy that is, that is slowly eroding this idea that you'd own it all.
I spent some years at Sony and they made a ton of money on Betamax, despite what everyone thinks. And they made a ton of money on the CD rom and some other things. But when digital music came around, they really got caught thinking they could, they could own standards that they couldn't be a more complex story than that, but that's a good analogy.
And I think Salesforce is, has kind of led the way both in SaaS, but then later on in this idea of a marketplace , where you can, you know, you can still be best in breed and exchanging data. In a way that is basically based on APIs. So I think you're certainly, you know, you're seeing this with Procore in their marketplace, which is now a pretty mature thing.
It looks like Autodesk is doing that more and more so I, I know that, you know, they all, they all have to tell some investors somewhere that we're going to take over the world and look at these incredible numbers, which are sometimes bigger than the actual pie. I mean, it's a, yes, it's a 1.3, or whatever it's going to be this year, trillion pie.
But the amount of it's spent on software is, you know, hugely lower.
And you know, when you see the 1% IT, you have to know that like two thirds of that is people. So what's actually software and this is true in every industry. It's not just a construction thing. There's somebody has to pay a fully loaded salary, which is usually more than almost any software with a couple of exceptions.
Travis Voss: [00:14:51] That's a great point. I think that we always think about that tech spend as being devices and software. That's not necessarily the case. It's usually not a huge human component.
Hugh Seaton: [00:14:58] What's funny. I actually tried to find a benchmark for that. And there really isn't one I'm sure Gartner would give you one because of course they will. But there really isn't a benchmark for how much is, is "shadow IT". But it's certainly a half to two thirds depending on what you're doing. Cause someone has to maintain it. Someone has to make sure all the emails work. I mean just simple blocking and tackling like that. Right. What happens when a senior person's email doesn't work? An entire department stops doing, and fixes the email, you know, or if you're doing, your VDC department has a problem with Revit or whatever the thing is. You know, it, it suddenly that there that's two days of their lives spent making sure that all those people's time is productive again.
Where do you find the kind of pockets of acceptance? Where are you finding people are like, yeah, let's do this and we're moving quickly.
Travis Voss: [00:15:45] You know, The pockets of acceptance are coming. Obviously I think that it's pretty clear that like some of the larger GCs that we've we've dealt with on the bigger projects, they, they understand it. They see the benefit of it in we're getting some good opportunities to work there. I think that,
Hugh Seaton: [00:16:01] and when you say, when you say they you're working with them, is that they're going through something like the CDX or there they'll just give you resources so you guys can integrate better.
Travis Voss: [00:16:10] It's mostly proof of concepts through the CDX. I don't know. Let's take one particular workflow and let's really kind of map it out and see where we're going there. You know, unfortunately thetruth of the matter is the project still has to get built.
So a lot of times we're still, we're still doing that kind of that dual process. But like I said, the forward thinking ones are really kind of understanding that they need the trade partners as much as we need them. So let's, let's really work together.
Hugh Seaton: [00:16:34] No one has overhead to spare. So the better you can make it easier on the more... yeah, that's interesting.
Travis Voss: [00:16:40] Yeah. So it's a, you know, it's still a lot of times we're still at the case study the white paper, the proof of concept stage where we're, maybe we're not even physically doing it, but we're kind of roadmapping through how we could, how we could make this happen in our various systems.
So there there's a lot of push there. There's a lot of good toehold there. I would say , we've had some opportunity and you know, construction is very regional. So the region we're in is still not very, we have a decent amount of design build or design assist or design rescue, I think as Jonathan likes to call it.
But you know, so we have a little bit of that, but we're still, we're still. I wouldn't say heavy in the plan and spec world, but you know, it's still a decent amount of our business. But I would say that in other areas of country, where you're starting to see the more of that design build, or, IPD mindset, that's where it's really starting to blossom.
And I think that I think it's DJ Phipps or, or Nicole they always point out that, you know, collaboration is or communicate. I can't read collaboration is contractual. I don't remember what he says, but basically once the contracts change. Right. That's where it becomes much easier.
Hugh Seaton: [00:17:43] I mean, you can see that being obviously true, right. Is if you're, if you're automatically adversarial, everything you give somebody is, is something you've given them. Like it's either a risk or it's a way they could beat you up or, or so on. Yeah, it's funny..
Travis Voss: [00:17:59] And I mean, that's, that's true because we're one of the reasons, you know, I'm not saying that we wouldn't maintain our own systems because we have our own, you know, financial reporting and everything like that.
But I think a lot of the, a lot of the reason is just to cover our own butts. Cause that last phase of construction is litigation. Right. So you gotta, you gotta be prepared.
Hugh Seaton: [00:18:16] Yeah. I've often thought that one of the reasons why you see Project management software get adopted is documentation . I mean, as much as people will say, this is about productivity. And obviously then they mean that. But I think people write checks as much to win disputes as they do for productivity gains. Definitely. It's just the reality of business, especially when you know, some of these change order disputes can be real meaningful numbers.
Travis Voss: [00:18:43] Yeah, for sure.
Hugh Seaton: [00:18:44] Let me ask you a little bit about your thoughts on, on the level of seniority, where data connectivity is even thought of. And by that, I mean sometimes when things are tough to advance and tough to get really bought in it's because it's still at a level where it's still kind of senior people, but it's not a senior priority.
I mean, this, this was for example, this was true with cybersecurity. For like 15 years, people talked about it until honestly state actors started really getting serious, whether it was, and it's not important who they were, but, but overseas, some, some countries started going after companies, the size of Helm, and smaller because they knew it was a way into even bigger companies where that's what they were really after.
And it wasn't really a construction thing. It was some other things, but the point is nobody senior paid attention to it until they did. And I wonder if you think that's, that's maybe an issue here too, is that people acknowledge it, but they don't, they're not putting their oomph behind it at really senior levels. What do you think?
Travis Voss: [00:19:43] Yeah, I would completely agree with that. I think that you're going to have a lot of senior level managers that understand the benefit of it, but like you said, aren't really kind of put their oomph behind it because they're still making money, businesses still going. They're going to have the people, you know, those people in the trenches are the ones that are going to kind of complain about it, but they're still getting the job done.
And I think that, to your point, we might not get a lot of movement until one of those senior level people, and, you know, I'll give our, our company credit to they, they, they do think about this and it's something, one of the reasons that I was put in place here in the job. But, you know, if you kind of think about some of these processes and we always worry about overhead, but some of these processes that you've put in place, if we can fix this data connectivity problem.
Yeah. Maybe you're adding one salary to overhead, but then you're also adding one more point to your profit across the board. And that seems like a pretty good trade off.
Hugh Seaton: [00:20:32] Or you're winning more jobs. I mean, I wonder if some of it's going to wind up, it's either going to need to be a higher win rate or you get better jobs or, or it drops to the bottom line in terms of savings.
The trouble with software ROI is always, it's usually kind of diffuse. It's usually not something you can point right at.
Travis Voss: [00:20:51] And it's definitely just more of a gut feel a lot of clients...
Hugh Seaton: [00:20:54] And it does show up, it's just, it's, it shows up with other things. And it's hard to say is that, are we had a good year or it was, you know, we did... we changed something out. I mean, this is a whole issue in the eighties, into the nineties about we spent all this money on software and where's the productivity gains. It turned out, they did show up. They just showed up later. At, at the economy at the economy level. But you know, it's just hard to point to a lot of times .
Travis Voss: [00:21:16] Well, and to your point, like with the data earlier in this conversation earlier, if you're, if you're gathering that data, right, and you get smart about it, and you're starting to go after those jobs that are the meat and potatoes, where you do traditionally make a good profit margin or you learn which, which, whatever trade partners or GCs or architects, engineers that you perform best with.
That's where the data will pay off. That's where the software will hopefully pay off. And you might not see those out and out productivity gains, but you should see, like you said, a bump in jobs won or a bump an increase in profit. Just because you're, you're only going after those jobs that you know, you're going to do well.
Hugh Seaton: [00:21:54] Yeah. That's a big area. Actually. I've heard a number of really good stories about companies digging into what is a good job. What does a good job for us look like? What are the factors that make us profitable? And you know, that allows them to go after things that are probably more in their wheelhouse anyway. So they're often more likely to win. That's a big area. Another one of course is just getting smarter about how you deploy people. It's often people have a pretty good sense of how they're deploying resources, but then when you put, when you apply data to it, you'll find things. You're like, wow, I didn't realize, you know, we had people driving so much or I didn't realize we had people you know, sitting undeployed or whatever it might be.
There's a couple of companies that are doing a pretty good job of, of helping surface some of that.
Travis Voss: [00:22:38] Yeah, and that's very important. And I, I also had the thought too, that, that you're going to start seeing, hopefully are we, I think we're starting to see a trend. You're going to start seeing more of it, of you know, especially like in healthcare and the data center world where thecustomer or the owner is getting much more intelligent and they're going to start requiring you to be good with data.
And you have to work with them to increase data flows. And that's another, I mean, it's, it's not so much always an end benefit directly to you, but it will help you kind of win more of those jobs because they're looking for those tech forward companies that they want to work with.
They don't want to work with five guys in a van sometimes.
Hugh Seaton: [00:23:13] Yeah. And I wonder if companies that are owners that are more tech forward and are willing to pay a little bit more now, or at least dispute a little bit less. And it nets out in the same place. If you're not fighting for every penny, you, you net out almost as well as if they agreed to pay you more upfront .
Travis Voss: [00:23:29] You're right. Yeah.
Hugh Seaton: [00:23:32] So I want to switch gears real quick. We've talked a couple of times you brought up. Sort of external thinkers, external folks that help you to think about what you're doing and think about possibilities. You mentioned Nathan Wood and the the CDX a number of times. And so listeners, if you're not familiar with that, definitely check it out.
But you and I about a year ago actually talked about a cool process. At the time I was just really impressed by the fact that you'd brought in consultants to help you think about what you have at the company now, and other things. Can you talk a little bit about what, what that was and what you got out of it?
Travis Voss: [00:24:08] Yeah. Yeah, if you don't mind me you know, I'll plug them a little bit. The JB Knowledge team do a consultancy program where they'll kind of come in and do a technology review. We, we honed it in on a few areas, one of those heavy ones being VDC and, and our project management.
And the reason we did that is, you know, we're trying to get better and sometimes you get blinders on and what you're doing what, what systems you're implementing, you know, and you think you have all the answers and having those outside consultants come in, kind of did a couple of things for us.
It pointed out areas we were missing on or gaps in our processes or project the products. It pointed out maybe where we could swap out a product and get ahead. You know, we do try to pride ourselves on hopefully mostly selecting best in breed products and while also trying to live within ecosystems.
And sometimes, you know because you can be your own echo chamber or because you have different areas of your organization that, that maybe aren't completely buying in, in, in you think you have a good idea. Sometimes it's nice to have that third-party kind of come in and confirm that yes, you are on the right path or, you know, your, whatever, your operations manager, your construction technologists actually know what they're talking about. And that can give you a little bit more wind in your sails, little bit more oomph because you know, I think that especially, you know, where, where we are in here in, in the rural Midwest, sometimes there's this mindset of the in-town stupid.
Like, you know, the people, you know, maybe that are in the area. It just because we're not in a big city, don't don't know everything. And having that consultant come in and kind of point out like, yeah, you know, you've got these holes here, you're moving in the right direction here, but all in all, you guys do have the right mindset.
I think that that can be as useful as being told you're doing something wrong.
Hugh Seaton: [00:25:54] Yeah. I love that. That last part about sometimes people don't realize how good they are. Is an important one, you know, just because you're not in a, in a big building with all the kind of out outward signs of being world-class doesn't mean you're not world-class, it just means that you don't have the outward sign.
You know what I mean? Like give me a hell of a driver without, without being in a Mercedes. Yeah. But I want to point out some things that you that are in, what you just said is that there's a number of really good resources out there that know construction that are aware of some of the constraints and concerns.
They may not be spending every day in the field, but they have they're not just are also not people who are tech only, which can sometimes be a little bit frustrating. Yes. You know, and you've, you've mentioned a few, we've talked about Nathan and the CDX JB knowledge. But there's a good group out there of people that have experienced with this and, and are able to, to help folks bridge the gap between what they're really good at, which is, you know, putting work in place, and the things that they're getting good at, which is the data and connectivity to make it all, kind of come together and, and, and improve.
So we're kind of at the end here. Thank you for a really good contractor's view of data is kind of how we talked about it. Where can people find you?
Travis Voss: [00:27:07] So they can find me on LinkedIn. I I'm, I can be fairly active on there on Twitter, right. Handles the @pwrliftnerd. And then recently in this last year, four of us, Jonathan Marsh, Trent Leinenbach, Jeff Sample and myself have started the Construction Dork podcast.
So you can find us there or do you can just, you know, reach out. Like I said, link LinkedIn is probably the easiest way to reach out to me. I'm generally happy to have conversations about technology process, whatever I, you know, I just, I, I joined this industry five years ago. Kind of took advantage of an opportunity that was placed in front of me and did not realize how passionate I would get about the industry. And that's where I am now.
Hugh Seaton: [00:27:46] Fantastic. So for anybody listening, check out the construction dorks, it's four experts that go pretty deep on some of these questions.
Travis Voss: [00:27:55] I don't know about experts, but we have fun talking about it.
Hugh Seaton: [00:27:57] That's why you have everybody else call you an expert. Cause then you can get away with it.
Travis Voss: [00:28:02] Well, we had a blast having you on, I mean, that's one of the things we like to do is recreate the, we try to recreate the conference environment where, you know, not, not to knock the sessions, but sometimes the real, the real nerd stuff happens around the bar later.
Right? Right.
Well, Travis, thanks for being on the podcast.
Thank you very much. Who has been a blast?